Second visit to the hall of terror

Though I have wanted to go back to the gym a few times since last Wednesday, I had no success in lining up a partner to go with me. However, I KNEW I would go today! I had a loose 'date' to meet up with Matt and his kids after my meeting. They would have to go earlier in order to take advantage of 'kid care', but it would be enough to act as my 'security blanket'.

As with the best plans of mice and men, it did not work out that way today. I received a text from Matt during my meeting. Working on a speech for his college class took precedence today. I certainly understood that! He had a 'workout' harder than mine, getting a speech ready. Oddly, I was not concerned. I prayed!

I knew that this day would come, I just did not expect that it would come this soon and certainly not today. But...surprise! It was here. No worries, I CAN do this! ...and I did!

The gym was practically empty by the time I arrived, and I liked that. I don't know why, but I felt more freedom, maybe less self conscious. Which is kind of odd, because I would be more noticeable when there a handful of men and one older woman. (must have been the prayer... which went something like, 'Okay, you have to come exercise with me! help me out here! I can do this with you... let's go!'

I faithfully engaged the first set of machines that are set to torture your core/stomach muscles. I stumbled through trying to remember how to adjust the seat, the this, the that and the weights. I succeeded and began my time of strain and sweat. Midway through one of the machines I was approached by one of the trainers who wanted to know if I needed help with anything. "No thank you, I think I have this", I said, while fumbling around looking for the way to adjust and then grabbing the bar incorrectly. ( I would not have had that problem had he not been standing there. - glasses might have helped too!) I am glad he ignored my words and began to instruct me. For the rest of my time on the torture machine she would stop by now and then and give me pointers.

I ended my time there with a 20 minute, 1 mile walk on the treadmill. It may sound wimpy, but I have been allergic to exercise for years, and I had gone from an outdoor girl to a computer geek girl many years ago... This is a bid deal! I was and am proud of my sweat. I can hardly wait till next time!


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Allergic to exersize, no more

Today I did it. I took the first step. I not only entered a gym, but I spent an hour and a half there working out. Well, beginning a relationship with the machines. Introductions, flirtation, and a little alone time with each one of them.

I am a 'partner person 'and I don't enjoying doing certain activities by myself, at least initially. Perhaps I just feel too vunerable or insecure when I am alone. Nah, I think it is because it is boring...

So, I borrowed a husband, (thank you Julie) to be my partner and physical trainer. Matt did an awesome job. I felt guilty taking the time from him, but my need overcame that guilt. Matt could have been sweating for himsel, instead, he put his two sons in the childcare room and walked me through each machine, passing on invaluable information and making me feel comfortable in this den of pain and torture.
So, I did it, I did a 12 count rep of a few machines. I walked a mile on the treadmill while watching Betty Davis in Jane Ayer. ( with the oddest closed caption I have ever seen.) Then twisted my torso, lifted my legs, and a bunch of other things... The pictures on the machines, and Matt say that I worked out all of my body parts... Just one rep of 12. That is good enough for day 1.
I must admit, I already felt better when I left. I had taken advil before I went. ( Always be prepared!) I already felt some results. ( soreness) But it felt good. I look forward to seeing the results of this torture, I mean, exersize.



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Can a Christian be Demonized?

I am writing this blog to answer a question posed to me by user yassir1965 based on my comment to a video on YouTube: Is Todd Bentley devil possessed?. YouTube only allows a certain amount of characters for reply and that would just not be enough for an answer that makes any sense.

Before I begin, let us look at the word that is sometimes translated as "possessed" or "oppressed" in the New Testament. This will help us know what is meant by what I Say.

The Greek word is daimonizomai It does not denote ownership. It is more or less properly translated "demonized". "influenced by a supernatural being of a bad nature" The when the word echō is used it denotes possession, as in the girl with the spirit of divination. Acts 16:16.

I do not believe a true believer can be possessed (echō ) by anything other than by God, after all, we were bought with a price! The blood of Jesus...


Now.. This was my orignial comment:

Our spirit is born again, the body is not.

"possessed" is not in scripture the word is "demonized". Christians can be oppressed by demons. Viruses & Illness dwell in our bodies, as does our Spirit and the Holy Spirit and if you have them, demons.

I am 31 in Christ, a bapti-costal in fact I am His and I know His voice.

It is a deception that a Christ follower can not have a demon. Don't hold on to something someone else taught you, ask the Lord, search the scriptures.

additionally... someone else wrote about light and darkness dwelling together. well, what goes on in a person's brain sometimes? the things they think about, they talk about? the movies, books, etc, they let in. they let in darkness, but the Holy Spirit does not leave us..

This is Yassir's question:

"so explain your view on 1 John 5:18 ... it says the Lord protects us and Satan cannot touch us "
We should always check out 'experiences' with the Word of God, and we should always check our 'beliefs' with the Word. We should not make a sweeping statement or belief based on just one line of scripture. We need to view it in context, and see if the concept is echoed elsewhere in Scripture, see if it fits the revealed character of God and also, since it is written in a different language and using idioms of that culture, we should try to dig a bit deeper and find what those words, and what they were saying really meant to them.

Matthew 11:29 For instance, take the word "YOKE", we here in America immediately thing of two oxen with a wooden 'yoke', however if you study that word that Jesus used and in the context of the culture, you will find out that "Yoke" was the word that they used to describe the teaching of a Rabbi. Check out some current Jewish teaching regarding the Torah and you will see that understanding still exists.
(isn't that cool?) Jesus confirms that teaching about following His teaching throughout the New Testament. I know some scriptures will come to your mind easily to substantiate that truth.

I want to share one other common belief that once put in the context of what it meant to them, and what you can find out if you dig and not just accept what someone else says. Let us look at the Mustard Seed. Matthew 17:20. Most people have interpreted that to mean if we only had 'the tiniest of faith', because a mustard seed if very tiny. However, it is more than that, and by digging for understanding & with the rhema by the Holy Spirit ( who leads us into all truth). You will find that the Mustard seed is one of the most tenacious of seeds. At the time of Jesus it was like a weed, it grew everywhere, pushing up through anything and everything. It pushes straight up, nothing stops it. IT IS TENACIOUS. Jesus was not necessarily talking about 'little faith', but 'tenacious faith'. changes things doesn't it? A LOT!
I know some scriptures will come to your mind easily to substantiate that truth.

Okay, I said all of that so that I can answer your question and also encourage you to DIG. I know you want truth, authenticity and all that Jesus provided for you through the cross and the defeating of death & other authorities through his resurrection.

The scripture you referred to 1John 5:18 - "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him."

That scripture may not mean what you are saying. That entire scripture taken alone can make a person t think that a Christ follower never sins (hamartanō - miss the mark) and that the 'evil one' can't affect his life. That belief is not true! (by the way, it just says "evil" no were is it implied it is "'evil one" as in a being. )

Let us look at "touch"
If you dig for the word ἅπτομαι - "Haptomi" you will find that one of the understandings of that word means "to hold one back". It is quite possible that is what this scripture is really saying. Because Truth be told, we cannot be held back by anything but our choices. God has given us all power and authority, it is our choices/will that can 'hold us back'. There are other scriptures that substantiate the fact that we have the ability to resist, etc.

If you look at the surrounding scriptures to 1John 5:18 you will see that 'experientially ' we don't "not sin" in fact 1John 5:16 shows us that it must mean something a bit different than what 1John 5:18 is seeming to say about "no one who is born of God sins". And "experimentally" believers are not free from encounters with evil or 'the evil one', we just don't have to take it!

I cannot think of other scriptures that substantiate that we never 'miss the mark', that it is God that keeps us from missing the mark or that 'evil does not affect our life"

sorry for all the words, but to get an understanding I am taking you through a shortened version of why I can say that Christ followers can be demonized.

1. What do I see in scripture?

• Paul was harassed by a messenger (angel) of Satan. The Amplified Bible tends to give more of a true flavor to what the original language meant. Therefore I will use it here. "And to keep me from being puffed up and too much elated by the exceeding greatness (preeminence) of these revelations, there was given me a thorn (a splinter) in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to rack and buffet and harass me, to keep me from being excessively exalted." [Job. 2:6.] (2Corinthians 12:7)

• . The Epistles were written to believers, Christ followers, not non-believers. Throughout scripture we see promises and warnings alike regarding the demonic ( devils). I will quote a few. ( if 1 John 5:18 means what you think it means, why are these warnings here?)

Be well balanced (temperate, sober of mind), be vigilant and cautious at all times; for that enemy of yours, the devil, roams around like a lion roaring [in fierce hunger], seeking someone to seize upon and devour. (1Peter 5:8)

BTW, let us look and think about this... I know this guy was not born-again. however at the time he was possibly a seeker of truth and was surely religious. On the outward probably appeared to be a godly person, he was in the synagogue. (we don't know the heart of other Christ followers either. look at 1 John 3: 8 -11 whoa! How many people professing Christ pass this test? Maybe that person professing Christ, isn't yet "there" though they want to be and a little deliverance might help!) anyway, look at this: Luke 4:35 A guy, in the synagogue, listening to Jesus, proclaiming He was the Christ, yet he was demonized and Jesus cast it out.

It is also clear that the Jews who knew the revealed written word of God had no problem believing that Jews could have demons. They even accused Jesus, whom they considered a 'Rabbi' as having demons. And Jesus cast demons out of those who followed to hear him. These were not 'born again under the new covenant, but there is a principle here, especially if you look where Jesus tells the disciples that whoever gets delivered needs to make sure they 'fill up' with.. what??? What was Jesus saying? Was there something that they could fill up with before he died for them?

Luke 10: 17-19
Who??? did Jesus give us the authority "…over all the power of the enemy...to cast him out..." for? If it was not for a believer, then those people were being set up for failure and being in a worse state, 7 times the demonic harassment. makes no sense.

• 2 Corinthians 11:4 can be read as actually 'receiving a different spirit', but I have not fully studied it out. so I am not sure if that 'receiving' means just entertaining or actually appropriating it .

• Ephesians 4:26-27 shows us we can give the devil a foothold in our life:

When angry, do not sin; do not ever let your wrath (your exasperation, your fury or indignation) last until the sun goes down. Leave no [such] room or foothold for the devil [give no opportunity to him]. what is termed "foothold' can mean a spot of occupancy in the ancient Greek.

• Ephesians 6 tells us how we need to resist the devil. ( again, if he can't 'touch us' like you thought 1 John 5;18 says, why do we need to resist him?)

• 2Timothy 2:26 Paul is instructing Timothy and telling him how a servant of the Lord should deal with those that disagree with him. (does not mean, just non-believers who disagree) "and they may come to their senses {and escape} from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will".

2. Do demons automatically leave the moment people are 'born again' ( according to John 1;11-13)? Does sickness automatically leave? ( by His stripes we were healed 1 peter). Do the consequences of our old life stop immediately? Are we exempt from the consequences?
in my experience, the answer is NO, some times, some, but not always! (btw, don't you think some illness are demonic oppression? scripture seems to say it is sometimes.)


How God anointed and consecrated Jesus of Nazareth with the [Holy] Spirit and with strength and ability and power; how He went about doing good and, in particular, curing all who were harassed and oppressed by [the power of] the devil, for God was with Him. (Act 10:38)

• so what about all the people who have demonic strongholds or oppression in their life before they said the 'sinners prayer', started going to church and calling themselves Christians?

Let's look at some people that sat under teaching, after Jesus rose from the dead, most likely now believing in Jesus. some even having been baptized.

• Simon the Sorcerer, he seems to have had some 'influences' left over from his occult days! He believed in Jesus. Acts 8: 13 - 24

• Philip Acts 8 : 3 - 15 seems to show that people heard and believed the Gospel but then it seems Peter dealt with those that were oppressed by the devils.

• Various places in scripture there was believing the gospel, healings, casting out of demons, baptism in water and baptism with the Holy Spirit with visible expression. If you check the original it is not always clear that it was in a particular order. Acts 19:12, I

• it also never is clear that everyone after Jesus rose from the dead that had devils cast out were believers or not.
  

That is just a cursory look through scripture and an answer to your 1 john 5:18. Surely you can see that scripture can't stand as the rule that someone who claims Christ cannot be demonized. I am concerned about casting devils out of non-believers...what a state they would be in if they don't abide in the vine!

• Experience?

I can give some specific experiential/anecdotal examples of people I know, who were believers, some for many years, that I personally either witnessed or participated in their freedom from being demonized. Years later the life change is still there. Freedom from alcohol, freedom from anger, freedom from seizures, freedom from Manic Depressive disorder, many things.

It is not my experiences that made my theology, it just supported it. Like signs and wonders support the preaching of the truth in scripture.

Way back when I was first 'born -again', and spent almost all my free time talking to the Lord and reading the bible is when I came to the belief I have. He taught me about demonizations, just like he taught me about giving, and other foundational principles. First He would lead me in the scriptures that dealt with the topic. It seemed whatever the Holy Spirit was showing me it would get confirmed all over he place. It would be in scripture, it would be here, there, everywhere... I mean I would walk my dog, pick up a piece of trash by a tree, turn it over and find it was a 'tract' or something dealing with the same topic. After a while of digging, and learning, ( kind of like the lecture part of college), I would find God put me in a position of (Lab work). Soon I would find myself challenged to put my learning where the rubber meets the road.

This happened too in regard to the demonic. I too was shocked to see how 'real" it was and I had not been taught anything regarding the demonic and the Christian or Non-Christian, therefore I had no preconceived opinion. The only notion I had really, was that in this day and age of intelligence, and in this modern country, I did not expect much of any thing with a demonic root. boy was I wrong.

I do not believe that there is a demon under every bush, nor do I believe that casting out a demon is a magic panacea freeing believers of all responsibly and turning them into super-Christian. Far from it.

My Subjective 'rhema'
Here are a few thoughts that I have had, that I feel were 'rhema'. A person demonized is likened to a ship trying to stay a course, reach a place, etc. but unable to get very far or get their easily as there are large anchors, connected by chains, holding the ship in a certain range. Taking authority over the areas where the enemy has gotten a foothold, is likened to cutting those chains down by the anchor. NOW, the believer must hoist up the chains and get going. They still need to be the ones relying on the promises of God and abiding in the vine and obeying to get where they are going. They just no longer are being stunted.

All people with 'issues' are not in need of 'deliverance' from the demonic realm. Many are in need of getting their flesh in line with the Word and appropriating the power the Lord has given us!

For instance: I feel the Lord has shown me that there is a difference between a person getting angry and an angry person. The later often having an issue that can get dealt with by coming against a spirit. Spirits look for expression. Therefore you can detect what something is by what is being expressed.. to excess.



Freeing believers of demonic strongholds in their lives, established way back when, certainly would be in keeping with the character of God who wants to set His children free. If you look at the state of the character and behavior of many nice people who claim Christ, it is difficult to see the difference between them and an unbeliever other than their Christianese. some battle very hard to be different, but they are battling in the flesh, a spirit that needs to be dealt with in the authority given us.



Ok, your eyes are tired, my fingers are, this has taken me all day to write and it is in no way complete. However it is an answer to 1 john 5:18

BTW, tell my precious sister in the Lord, that I had the privilege of leading to Christ 22 years ago. Was physically healed of incurable disease then and of brain cancer recently.
That lead bible studies, lead many to Christ, goes to church regularly, and has a precious character, that the multitude of spirits that manifested and were cast out a year ago January. Who now is no longer battling anxiety, depression, thoughts of suicide and anger, that she was not a believer for the previous 20 years. IF someone can claim her to not be a believer then no one can ascertain who a believer is. She had all the outward appearance, in and out of her home. (BTW, I 'assumed" the bi-polar, manic -depressive order that turned up 13 years ago was genetic, as her father suffered and still suffers from the same thing..) oops, my nurses training blinded me!

Baby got book

Love this ... very clever!